Seizure Response No. 77
Dodona
Re: What is 'Racism'?
« Reply #78 on Yesterday at 1:56pm »
Yesterday at 8:18am,
Response by Seizure:
Oslonor:
So what is your point. Persians do not fit into Irano-Afghan group.
Siezure:
No one fits into a single group. Coon, who you simultaneously use to corrobarate your claim that because they're metrically similar, nordics and persians must be the same, does not even claim that most Persians fit into his Irano-Afghan group. He calls it the principal element in all of Iran, which means it's first but still a minority. Other than that, I've no idea where you're getting that Persians are all Irano-Afghans.
Oslonor:
It is very strange name. Irano-Afghan describe neither Persians or Afghans. It describes mostly Azeris and Turkomens.
Seizure:
Regardless, some Persians are Iranids. None are Nordids. Deal with it.
Oslonor:
They are part of Irano-Nordoid.
Seizure:
Nope.
You're being pendantic. It doesn't matter if there's an Iranian race. Half of her ancestry comes from Iran.
Oslonor:
According to her biography Click: Shermine Shahrivar came from Iran to Germany with her parents when she was 3 years old.
Seizure::
Rudia Bakhtiar (Click) is looks like what she is. A middle-easterner. I have no agenda to "claim" supposedly european looking Persians. Speaking of biographies, go take a look at Shermine's. She's half German. No two ways about it. My point? Just try not to use non-pure examples. For example, Catherine Zeta Jones is constantly used on this forum as an example of a dark Welshie. She's half Irish, half Welsh, though, and it's her Irish father who's darker than her Welsh mother. Maybe most of her appearance is due to him. For all you know Shermine's the spitting image of her German mother.
Oslonor:
I do not know what you mean by Middle Easterner. There is no Middle easterner category in anthropology. Shermin Click does not look like Germans. And Germans do not need a half german girl to represent Nordic germans. Her case is not related to Catherine Zeta Jones. Also wonder how you know Shermines life so well. Is it not that you have an agenda and that is why you are saying she is half german.
Seizure:
They usually have dark-brown and black hair. You show on your blog almost only the lightest Persians as if this is typical, meanwhile you make a big deal of Hollywood not showing Persians as white enough. Roxanne was played by a heavily
Oslonor:
I do not associate Aryans with the color of the hair. I am not a nordcisit. What you are trying to say that Azeris have %100 black hair and I agree with you. You associate a typical Iranian image with an Azeri and you are correct because they are a majority. I do not think you have seen many Persians. But Azeris are different ethnic group. But I have noticed some people on these forums have seen Persians. They make comments such as "Yes. Iranians can look very different". You expect me to use half Azeri half-Persian pictures on my blog. I do not because they are not persian prototype. I am using Persian prototypes.
Seizure:
I'm mixing no one up.
They're not related at all? Your blog makes erroneous statements about Arabians, claiming they're mulato.
Oslonor:
I am quoting Wikepedia. That is what wikepedia claims.
Seizure:
Stop putting words in my mouth. I said those people look like they belong in the Middle East. It's true. Europe has certain phenotypes; the Middle East has its. There are of course huge overlaps, but these people do not represent such.
Oslonor:
Ordinary americans and Europeans do not agree with you. Those Persians could be very well from Europe.
Seizure:
Not according to the same Cavalli-Sforza map you started this with. Genetics, metrical dimensions, facial features--caucasoids are largely homogenous, Arab to Swede.
Oslonor:
That is correct. But the power of explanation of Caucasoid is very limited.
Seizure:
Just because you can't understand the similarities between different peoples with different pigmentation or have an agenda to prove Persians are "white" doesn't mean anything. If anything, "white" what is unscientific here.
Oslonor:
I do not have any agenda. Other people have an agenda to associate Persians with Arabs and Africans.
Seizure:
You get on me for calling her Persian and yet you use "Afghans". Afghanistan is as ethnically plural as Iran. Why no objection there?
Oslonor:
Both Persians and Afghans are the same people. I have same the objection there. I do not know what you are refering to.
Seizure:
Blah, blah, blah. I didn't bloody mention Azeris. I'm not speaking of Azeris. How the crap is that girl nordic? Define nordic. Dolichochranic? What?
Oslonor:
Good question. Why you are not surprised about Azeris who have all the characteristics that you assign to Persians.
Seizure:
I think you should stop putting words in my mouth.
Yeah, and I talked to a guy who told me he found Jesus passing out fliers by the subway. Where's the part where you actually provide any evidence for what you're saying?
Oslonor:
Swedes are one of those early nations that accepted the German version of history about Aryans and aryan migration. That is the proof.
Seizure:
I was referring again just to Persians, who I repeat are not the same as nordics. "White" is a meaningless social construct not backed up by genetics.
Oslonor:
That is what anthropologist believe. See the discussion on Nordish and Nordic here
Nordish and Nordic
Seizure:
WTF is that statement supposed to mean. First of all, for the last bloody time, Irano-Afghan does not mean Persian or Afghan. It means a phenotype in those countries, but that is also in others. This plate is not a example, or nor is it bloody supposed to be an example of Aghanis or Persians. No one bloody said most Persians have hooked noses. No one bloody said most Persians are Irano-Afghans. You came up with that all by yourself.
Oslonor:
That is fine. You can use any theoretical model and any terminology that you like. But if you want to go from theory to reality, you need auxiliary theories and assumptions to be able to explain concrete examples e.g. point to somebody and say he is persian or afghan. The problem is that you do not have these additional theories and the implications from the general theory is not valid. All your explanations are on a ad hoc basis. They are aposteriori. That is why they can not explain anything. In any case Most of your terminilogy does not make any sense. But you are free to choose any theories you want. But I question the implications of your theories.
Seizure:
What are they pictures of? Monkeys? Pictures means graphical represention--drawings or otherwise.
Oslonor:
Those are good pictures if you want to prove that Irano-Afghan race is a hooked nose race. Otherwise they are not very good prototypes. See here for "Irano-Afghan Race" Fraud.
Seizure:
Yes, and? Again, the only idiot who came up with the conclusion that this phenotype was exclusive to Persians and Afghanis. Don't blame your poor reasoning skills on Carlton Coon.
Oslonor:
I wonder if Coon was trying to include too many ethnic groups in a very narrow or wide race category. He should have more categories.
Seizure:
Persians are not Turks.
Seizure:
Coon isn't saying otherwise.
Oslonor:
That is what Hollywood thinks.
Re: What is 'Racism'?
« Reply #78 on Yesterday at 1:56pm »
Yesterday at 8:18am,
Response by Seizure:
Oslonor:
So what is your point. Persians do not fit into Irano-Afghan group.
Siezure:
No one fits into a single group. Coon, who you simultaneously use to corrobarate your claim that because they're metrically similar, nordics and persians must be the same, does not even claim that most Persians fit into his Irano-Afghan group. He calls it the principal element in all of Iran, which means it's first but still a minority. Other than that, I've no idea where you're getting that Persians are all Irano-Afghans.
Oslonor:
It is very strange name. Irano-Afghan describe neither Persians or Afghans. It describes mostly Azeris and Turkomens.
Seizure:
Regardless, some Persians are Iranids. None are Nordids. Deal with it.
Oslonor:
They are part of Irano-Nordoid.
Seizure:
Nope.
You're being pendantic. It doesn't matter if there's an Iranian race. Half of her ancestry comes from Iran.
Oslonor:
According to her biography Click: Shermine Shahrivar came from Iran to Germany with her parents when she was 3 years old.
Seizure::
Rudia Bakhtiar (Click) is looks like what she is. A middle-easterner. I have no agenda to "claim" supposedly european looking Persians. Speaking of biographies, go take a look at Shermine's. She's half German. No two ways about it. My point? Just try not to use non-pure examples. For example, Catherine Zeta Jones is constantly used on this forum as an example of a dark Welshie. She's half Irish, half Welsh, though, and it's her Irish father who's darker than her Welsh mother. Maybe most of her appearance is due to him. For all you know Shermine's the spitting image of her German mother.
Oslonor:
I do not know what you mean by Middle Easterner. There is no Middle easterner category in anthropology. Shermin Click does not look like Germans. And Germans do not need a half german girl to represent Nordic germans. Her case is not related to Catherine Zeta Jones. Also wonder how you know Shermines life so well. Is it not that you have an agenda and that is why you are saying she is half german.
Seizure:
They usually have dark-brown and black hair. You show on your blog almost only the lightest Persians as if this is typical, meanwhile you make a big deal of Hollywood not showing Persians as white enough. Roxanne was played by a heavily
Oslonor:
I do not associate Aryans with the color of the hair. I am not a nordcisit. What you are trying to say that Azeris have %100 black hair and I agree with you. You associate a typical Iranian image with an Azeri and you are correct because they are a majority. I do not think you have seen many Persians. But Azeris are different ethnic group. But I have noticed some people on these forums have seen Persians. They make comments such as "Yes. Iranians can look very different". You expect me to use half Azeri half-Persian pictures on my blog. I do not because they are not persian prototype. I am using Persian prototypes.
Seizure:
I'm mixing no one up.
They're not related at all? Your blog makes erroneous statements about Arabians, claiming they're mulato.
Oslonor:
I am quoting Wikepedia. That is what wikepedia claims.
Seizure:
Stop putting words in my mouth. I said those people look like they belong in the Middle East. It's true. Europe has certain phenotypes; the Middle East has its. There are of course huge overlaps, but these people do not represent such.
Oslonor:
Ordinary americans and Europeans do not agree with you. Those Persians could be very well from Europe.
Seizure:
Not according to the same Cavalli-Sforza map you started this with. Genetics, metrical dimensions, facial features--caucasoids are largely homogenous, Arab to Swede.
Oslonor:
That is correct. But the power of explanation of Caucasoid is very limited.
Seizure:
Just because you can't understand the similarities between different peoples with different pigmentation or have an agenda to prove Persians are "white" doesn't mean anything. If anything, "white" what is unscientific here.
Oslonor:
I do not have any agenda. Other people have an agenda to associate Persians with Arabs and Africans.
Seizure:
You get on me for calling her Persian and yet you use "Afghans". Afghanistan is as ethnically plural as Iran. Why no objection there?
Oslonor:
Both Persians and Afghans are the same people. I have same the objection there. I do not know what you are refering to.
Seizure:
Blah, blah, blah. I didn't bloody mention Azeris. I'm not speaking of Azeris. How the crap is that girl nordic? Define nordic. Dolichochranic? What?
Oslonor:
Good question. Why you are not surprised about Azeris who have all the characteristics that you assign to Persians.
Seizure:
I think you should stop putting words in my mouth.
Yeah, and I talked to a guy who told me he found Jesus passing out fliers by the subway. Where's the part where you actually provide any evidence for what you're saying?
Oslonor:
Swedes are one of those early nations that accepted the German version of history about Aryans and aryan migration. That is the proof.
Seizure:
I was referring again just to Persians, who I repeat are not the same as nordics. "White" is a meaningless social construct not backed up by genetics.
Oslonor:
That is what anthropologist believe. See the discussion on Nordish and Nordic here
Nordish and Nordic
Seizure:
WTF is that statement supposed to mean. First of all, for the last bloody time, Irano-Afghan does not mean Persian or Afghan. It means a phenotype in those countries, but that is also in others. This plate is not a example, or nor is it bloody supposed to be an example of Aghanis or Persians. No one bloody said most Persians have hooked noses. No one bloody said most Persians are Irano-Afghans. You came up with that all by yourself.
Oslonor:
That is fine. You can use any theoretical model and any terminology that you like. But if you want to go from theory to reality, you need auxiliary theories and assumptions to be able to explain concrete examples e.g. point to somebody and say he is persian or afghan. The problem is that you do not have these additional theories and the implications from the general theory is not valid. All your explanations are on a ad hoc basis. They are aposteriori. That is why they can not explain anything. In any case Most of your terminilogy does not make any sense. But you are free to choose any theories you want. But I question the implications of your theories.
Seizure:
What are they pictures of? Monkeys? Pictures means graphical represention--drawings or otherwise.
Oslonor:
Those are good pictures if you want to prove that Irano-Afghan race is a hooked nose race. Otherwise they are not very good prototypes. See here for "Irano-Afghan Race" Fraud.
Seizure:
Yes, and? Again, the only idiot who came up with the conclusion that this phenotype was exclusive to Persians and Afghanis. Don't blame your poor reasoning skills on Carlton Coon.
Oslonor:
I wonder if Coon was trying to include too many ethnic groups in a very narrow or wide race category. He should have more categories.
Seizure:
Persians are not Turks.
Seizure:
Coon isn't saying otherwise.
Oslonor:
That is what Hollywood thinks.
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